Stephen Jones of the London Sunday Times, writing his weekly syndicated e-mail, has poured derision on what he calls the myth of South Africa’s formidable props and scrummaging.
This is what the veteran Welsh rugby writer had to say:
”Once we get a supposed national characteristic into our heads, a national trait or a so-called national strength, there is no shifting it. It becomes a consuming dogma.
“You know the sort of thing: West Indies produce great fast bowlers. The French are rude and shocking drivers. The Scots are tight as ducks' backsides. Wales produces wonderful sports journalists. Aussie and Kiwi referees are scandalously bad. Germans hog the towels on holiday. Well, most of these notions are just typecasting. Most.
“And South Africa produces great props. What a load of drivel. I admit it, I have subscribed to this hoary old rubbish. It is not true. It never was. South Africa is the home of Big Blokes Going Backwards. It is the elephant in the room of every South African rugby fan. Except that the elephant is docile and not half as dangerous as it looks. As with Bok props, if you say "Boo!" it will go away.
“Take this tour. Leicester's reserve pack and Martin Castrogiovanni butchered the Boks at Welford Road. In Toulouse last Saturday, the Boks were beasted up front, embarrassed and shattered. On Tuesday night at Wembley, the reserve Sarries front row annihilated South Africa at scrum-time.
“It was ever thus. The first time I saw South Africa live was at dear old Rodney Parade and I could hardly watch the first few scrums as the tiny Newport props went down against those giants. Why worry? I can even recall that Newport won nine balls against the head. Yes, nine.
“At their very best, the Bok scrum is a holding operation. But in the last 20 years they have grossly over-rated a torrent of props, they have promoted others prematurely on grounds of race and they have still managed to be called a scrummaging nation. Why?
“The trick that they play on themselves is typified by the deification of Os du Randt, who was never remotely a great player or scrummager. A few years ago at Twickenham he was humiliated by the England front row. You felt sad for him. "Big bloke, but didn't know what to do with it," a scrum expert told me that night.
“A nation of scrummagers? More like a nation of Backwards Joggers. Scroll down to see our list of the week of Bok weaklings.
SOUTH AFRICA'S LEADING LARD-BOTTOMS:
The pumped-up props for whom reverse gear is a way of life.
10. Wian du Preez - came on as a replacement for South Africa against Sarries at Wembley, hammered by Richard Skuse then ritually slaughtered by Carlos Nieto in the final quarter. Ran backwards.
9. BJ Botha - when last I was in South Africa, one of the home prop-slobberers told me to watch out for BJ, he was something special. Indeed he was. He stayed hidden for 80 minutes.
8. CJ van der Linde - shocking. He was beasted to kingdom come in the Wasps-Leinster Heineken match at Twickenham last season. Cue disappearance of CJ and enter unopposed scrums.
7. Lawrence Sephaka - still staggering about in France last time we heard. Was usually carted off at half time in big games after being murdered in the scrum. Token-selection suspicions ahoy.
6. Gurthro Steenkamp - nice bloke, but he couldn't scrummage your Auntie. Totally obliterated by Martin Castrogiovanni of Leicester at Welford Road last week. Would struggle for a beer-only contract in a local leagues outfit.
5. Ollie le Roux - great jolly barrel of a man. Enjoyed the odd gallop prior to a ten-minute break for wheezing and getting his breath back, but yet another Bok prop who was simply not at the races as a scrummager.
4. John Smit - a few years ago he was a decent hooker. Now, in answer to the savage dearth, he is a prop who, if he quickened up dramatically, would be military slow-medium.
3. Jannie du Plessis - smashed to pieces by the reserve Leicester front row last week. Big and chunky and a shame he kept missing the How to Prop seminars. No forward gears, apparently.
2. Tendai Mtawarira - even by the second half of the first test against the Lions we knew that his striking scrummaging against Phil Vickery in the first half had been a freak, aided by a ref who let him scrum with total illegality. In the rest of the series, including the return against Vickery in the third test, he was demolished.
1. Os du Randt - the mountainous hero, the untouchable, four-square baldy of scrum-time, adored in the Republic. Especially by those whose televisions were on the blink when he was destroyed piece by piece and utterly humiliated by Julian White at Twickenham a few years ago.”
Jones, like the Springbok selectors, has obviously never heard of WP Nel or Coenie Oosthuizen!
What do you make of Jones's comments?
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Nice one Stephen. The Welsh are indeed know for their great rugby writers and biased commentators, and of course a few quite good scrumhalves and wings and, oh yes, I almost forgot, one very good fullback. What else..... ummmm. Oh well. I think some of your comments are spot on ie: Ollie. But goodness me. Don''t mess with Os. You can call him a donkey or an ox or an elephant, but no matter what you call him, he will always be ''the greatest''. Maybe he had one or two bad days at the office but his good days were AWESOME! Love your writings Stephen. Really!
by Etienne November 19, 2009 07:59 GMT
Firstly it must be noted that Mr Jones is welsh, not his fault, he was born that way.
Bring Sarries and Tigers and the french pack and let them come take on the front row of the cheetahs. This idiot who wrote the article must remeber that the locks behind the props contribute to the power of the scrum. Here is a pack to ponder on Mr Welshie
1. Os Du Randt (Mr Jones keeps hammering on one game, Os played 80 tests) 2. John Smith (great srumming hooker) 3. Richard Bands (made many loose heads lick their cracks)
by Gerhard November 19, 2009 08:02 GMT
Maybe have one or two good points, but is walking on thin ice with comments on Rugby greats like old oom OS. Wonder if he ever scrummed agianst any of these oaks, and I bet if he had he whould''nt have been a journalists...shame???
In fact, this will spur on Beast and John for this wekend.
GO BOKKS!! GO AND SCRUM THEM!!
by C November 19, 2009 08:03 GMT
The amount of rugby knowledge in this article is directly proportional to the quality of Welsh rugby of late. When Wales win the World Cup one day I might raise an eye-brow at what comes out of a Welsh writer.
by Bobby Collins November 19, 2009 08:05 GMT
He has obviously got alot to say and like most british sports people he is full of crap. Its amazing though that everyone has got so much to say about our rugby but they forget when they come tour here in SA that those very things happen to their "first rate" players. But hey we all have our opinions and it is just amazing how the british tabloids cant even find decent journalists and that they have to turn to retired sports people who obviously dont have a look at their own referees as being pathetic.
by Koos Miller November 19, 2009 08:06 GMT
Not a lot of journalists or for that matter referees have played as a prop so I cannot understand how they can comment on what goes on in the scrum.
by Jeff November 19, 2009 08:08 GMT
Funny how this moron talks about all the South African props, yet, he can''t name a decent number of English props... He''s mentioned Castrogiovanni in just about every scentence, an Italian playing club rugby in England, who I think isn''t going to ''demolish'' the Springbok scrum, an underdog is a very scary thing...
by Bossie November 19, 2009 08:10 GMT
Well I must say that it really rubs me the wrong way when people poke fun at Os du Randt, but with the way the Boks have been scrumming lately Jones''s comments really are justified. There is no doubt that this year our scrum has not been up to scratch with the rest of our game. Peter de Villiers and Gary Gold really need to sort this out or we surely will stand little chance in New Zealand when we try to defend our World Cup title, a fact I''m sure we will all become aware of on Saturday if Castrogiovanni and his comrades repeat last week''s performance at scrum time.
Our coaches need to stop moaning about referees and start putting in more work on the scrum machine. Maybe we do need to call in Os once again to show the way. He taught the Cheetahs how to scrum this year, and they really were in a different league to the rest of our provices, which according to Stephen Jones may not mean much anymore... the nerve! All South Africans should be ashamed that this kind of comment has merit, which it really does whether we like it or not. At least we have the best part of two years to change it. Good luck against Casto Bokke, I daresay we might just need it.
by RICHARD November 19, 2009 08:10 GMT
wHETHER WE LIKE IT OR NOT, JONES IS CORRECT. WE JUST DO NOT SHAPE UP IN THE SCRUMS AT ALL WITH OUR " BODY BUILDERS". CANT REMEMBER WHEN LAST WE SCARED THE OPPOSITION, MAYBE 25 YEARS AGO. JOHN SMIT IS A HOOKER AND IF HE IS NOT SELECTED THERE HE SHOULD RETIRE WHILE AT THE TOP. SEARCH FOR PROPS IN THE PLATTELAND.
by Pieta November 19, 2009 08:10 GMT
The ramblings of a man with a serious taste of sour in his mouth. (Still can''t get over the BIL loss, hey Stephen?) So ok, Os got scrummed by Julian White - IN ONE GAME. What about all the thousands of scrums he didn''t go backwards? The same can be said for most of the other 9 on the list, although some should not have been Boks in the first place.
by Alberto November 19, 2009 08:12 GMT
What a CHOP!!!!!!!!!!!
by Proudly South African November 19, 2009 08:12 GMT
Haha... this guy is actually quite funny... big joker. Hope he was not trying to be serious, cause as just another one of the jones'' he fails to mention the 1000 times SA has dimnated scrums, played of front foot ball and beaten all forms of other teams. I guess when you hand a journalist an opportunity like the boks have the last couple of weeks then a number 8 team in the world supporter would make a couple of wise cracks at the true leaders of world rugby. After all, he doesn''t get a lot of chances to do this, so go for it mate... enjoy it while it lasts, but just remember, you''ve got a long way to go to catch up with these so called "backward travellers", so we''ll see what your articles looks like after 2011 :-)
by geoff venter November 19, 2009 08:13 GMT
our front rows have been a concern for sometime now, mainly because of their erratic performances. It appears the refs - the one eyed ones[ majority of them!] are confusing the shit out of our guys, al la tuesday night!
As for OS - jones is definitely smoking his socks!!
by Cal November 19, 2009 08:13 GMT
Os Du Raant is one of the best props of all time and rated by every team he has played against. South Africa''s front row may not be the best in the world but the game has moved on and 95% of the time the team putting the ball into the scrum wins it anyway. At least the SA front row are made up of ball carriers and players that can hit rucks and make tackles. When last did you see any of the English , Welsh or Scottish front rows running with ball in hand? SA beat the Lions , NZ and the Aussies with this front row, its easily forgotten that Phil Vickery spent most of his Durban Test in mid air than on the ground against the SA front row
by rae November 19, 2009 08:17 GMT
he''s entitled to his opinion - but we are still the world champs!
by Nicholas AJ Malherbe November 19, 2009 08:18 GMT
Post this up in the change room of every school, club and provincial side in South africa and have it burned into every single rugby player''s heart and soul. the man has a point but then when did we as South African''s ever listen and not take it to heart, thus the stage should be set for our south african teams from under 7, right up to the Sprringboks, to tear into and savage every single team for the next twenty years and make him eat those words. manne, you have been challenged, show them what we are made of!!!!
by peter November 19, 2009 08:20 GMT
He is talking a lot of nonsense
by Tony November 19, 2009 08:20 GMT
The reality of the situation is that Jones is correct in what he says.
I am a die hard Bok supporter but am embarassed by the scrum and have been for a few years now.
They show no ticker and when the going gets tough they disappear.
They have no idea on technique.
Take a look at the aussies, yes they cheat but do it and get away with it. They also show ticker
by Schalk November 19, 2009 08:21 GMT
Die waarheid maak seer. Ek glo ons sal reg maak wat verkeerd is en in die WB reeks skrum ons alles weer stukkend. Moenie n bok dem@er in maak nie. Os sal altyd n legende wees, dis inelkegeval net Jones se opienie.
by whiteryno November 19, 2009 08:22 GMT
I''m starting to think Jones may be right!
by Jacques November 19, 2009 08:24 GMT
Arrogant!!!
by Riaan November 19, 2009 08:24 GMT
OUCH!!!! This is quite the slap in our face.
by Darren November 19, 2009 08:26 GMT
Trying so hard not to write out of sheer irritation because he makes some fair comments, but Stephen Jones shows as much ignornace in this article as British pundits do every time they commentate before or during a game. Os Du Randt, a poor scrummager? Please, he won two world cups for us. I couldn''t care if none of the above could walk, as long as we''re winning. I don''t agree that we can''t srum, just think the rest of the world has caught up with ( and in some cases overtaken) us in this department. Our lineouts are still the best in the world and the last time I checked, props played a role in this set-piece? Go boys, give the Itie''s a hiding this weekend. A 12 & 15, my kingdom for a 12 & 15!!
by kev November 19, 2009 08:26 GMT
this is only going to fire the tight 5 up even more!we are so useless in the scrums that`s why we world champs and tri nations champs....................................!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
by Joe November 19, 2009 08:28 GMT
Het to a large extent Stephen is right. We just dont have good props in the mould of Martiens Le Roux. Henning Van Aswegen, Tommie Laubscher and Hempies Du toit. Thanks to Eddie moan Joans who influenced J W saying that scrums are a restart of the game. The modern game requires mobility! Yes but you must secure good possession and disrupt the opponents possession. For that your need good props at the restart at srumtime. At WP who were soft for the past 5yrs or so, we have seen the scrum harden and a systematic improvement in results. So yes Stephen Jones is right!
by Pieter November 19, 2009 08:29 GMT
What do I make of this idiot’s comments? SA 2x WC’s, ENG 1 won with a bunch of grandfathers who spectacularly imploded directly after. In total stats played between ENG and SA, SA leads by a long mile and have won the last 6. I total of games played by SA and his miserably homeland, called Wales? In over 100 years? Wales could only win once against a disjointed brain sh!t conceptualized team by Nick the Mullet. Ireland could in the same period only beat us twice? And I think the same goes for the Scots. So the myth of the so-called Home Unions is that although they invented rugby, they could never play it!
by Cheslyn November 19, 2009 08:35 GMT
this journalist guy should maybe write about his own country when it comes to rugby, the last time i checked they beat us like one in a million, think he needs to crit his own team before writing such crap about the 2 TIME WORLD CHAMPIONS!!!!!
by Spiekel November 19, 2009 08:35 GMT
Horse K@k.
I would pay to see Mr. Jones make these comments to OS "the BOSS" Du Randt in person. Guaranteed 5 million hits on you-tube within a week.
What an IDIOT. Wales'' leading lard-bottom, and definitely the "most wonderful sports journalists" Wales will ever produce.
You make your country proud Mr. Jones.
P.S. Have you considered a career in investigative journalism??
by Gareth November 19, 2009 08:43 GMT
What I would love to ask Mr Jones is that if our scrum is, and also has been, so poor and scrummaging is believed by many to be the basis for any good rugby team, then how unbelievably brilliant must the rest of our team be, if we are the current: 1. World Champions 2. Tri-nations Champions 3. British and Irish Lions series winners 4. Super 14 champions ???
by Nj oosthuizen November 19, 2009 08:44 GMT
Old os wouldnt have played that much tests if he couldnt scrum ''prop''erly!! YSTER
by Jaco van Wyk November 19, 2009 08:45 GMT
It''s all great to have the history of the game in your country... But when was the last time wales dominated any aspect of world rugby (even when they did ''dominate'' they lost their games against SA and went 1-1 to NZ). But nation bashing aside:
Piet "Spiere" du Toit Chris Koch Mof Myburg
I''m only 29 and I know about the destructive capabilities of just these three... and Os? a two times world cup winner, give me a break you can''t base a Prop''s ability on one or even two games! It''s such a physically and mentally demanding position that anyone can have an of day! And 7 of the guys he mentioned had "?" behind their names when selected. If I pick the ten worst (or 7 worst and 3 damn decent) wingers in wales of the last twenty years and publish the list does that mean they produce bad wingers?
But by all means to quote Mr Jones himself: "Wales produces wonderful sports journalists... Well, most of these notions are just typecasting. Most."
by Jake November 19, 2009 08:47 GMT
A bit rich coming from a nation that last really competed on the world stage of rugby about the time of Gareth Edwards----- which was ---hell so long ago I can''t remember.
i have just checked the IRB world rankings as of 16th Nov 2009 SA no 2 (yes Kiwis are #1) and Wales ---oops also drooped one place down to 8th!!!!!
I have to admit thought that SA are up to their old habits ---over confident and then get slack.
Well -- the only way to prove him wrong is to get out there and prove him wrong!!!!!!! If Puke Watson can bounce back with the greta season he had in 2009 then the rest of the Boks sure can!!!
by Simon November 19, 2009 08:52 GMT
Mr Jones, if thats the case, its clear scrumming doesn''t win World Cup Titles. We have 2, you have none... Here is a list of all South Africa vs. Wales matches, happy reading! 1906: South Africa vs Wales 11-0 at St Helen’s Ground, Swansea 1912: South Africa vs Wales 3-0 at Cardiff Arms Park 1931: South Africa vs Wales 8-3 at St Helen’s Ground, Swansea 1951: South Africa vs Wales 6-3 at Cardiff Arms Park 1960: South Africa vs Wales 3-0 at Cardiff Arms Park 1964: South Africa vs Wales 24-3 at Kings Park Stadium, Durban 1970: Draw 6-6 at Cardiff Arms Park 1994: South Africa vs Wales 20-12 at Cardiff Arms Park 1995: South Africa vs Wales 40-11 at Ellis Park, Johannesburg 1996: South Africa vs Wales 37-20 at Cardiff Arms Park 1998: South Africa vs Wales 28-20 at Wembley Stadium, London 1998: South Africa vs Wales 96-13 at Loftus Versfeld, Pretoria (I really enjoyed this one, but i forget we cant scrum...) 1999: Wales won 29-19 at Millennium Stadium, Cardiff 2000: South Africa vs Wales 23-13 at Millennium Stadium, Cardiff 2002: South Africa vs Wales 19-8 at Newlands 2002: South Africa vs Wales 34-19 at Vodacom Park, Bloemfontein 2004: South Africa vs Wales 53-18 at Loftus Versfeld, Pretoria 2004: South Africa vs Wales 38-36 at Millennium Stadium, Cardiff 2005: South Africa vs Wales 33-16 at Millennium Stadium, Cardiff 2007: South Africa vs Wales 34-12 at Millennium Stadium, Cardiff 2008: South Africa vs Wales 37-21 at Loftus Versfeld, Pretoria 2008: South Africa vs Wales 43-17 at Vodacom Park, Bloemfontein
by Mthoko November 19, 2009 08:52 GMT
i dont think this is a fair analysis clearly this welsh man is not a big fan of the springboks so i dont think he is being objective...yes the scrum is not our best asset it is a part of our game that still needs improvement but its not a crisis as he makes it out to be.
but it must be expected that if u are the best team in the world every mistake u make will be scrutinized because u set the bar so high so this should be taken as a complement more than anything this guy is basically saying he expects more from the springboks and there is nothing wrong with that.
by Chris Russell-Rockliff November 19, 2009 08:54 GMT
Lets scrap all the talk he mentions on past history - the tough truth is that our scrums ARE being pushed backwards, so we need to do something about it, and stop winging about bad refs etc.
Sometimes we need to listen to these idiots, and see where they may have a point.
To all the Bok supporters - It''s life, suck it up and deal with it - our scrums are not what they used to be.
by Vic November 19, 2009 08:57 GMT
OOO my Mr JOnes pls. tell us about all the world cups the wonder welsh have won?????
wake up and smell something god knows what as you give biased a new meaning.
by Donovan November 19, 2009 08:57 GMT
Funny how we managed to win 2 world cups a tri-nation and beat the Lions with ''''big blokes'''' going backwards, can you imagine what we will do if we had a so called strong scrum, I would rather have mobile forwards than fat lazy ones who are always last to the breakdown.
The last time I check Mr Stephen Jones Wales has only beaten us once in the last 19 matches and oh yes Wales have won the World cup how many times.........
by Shaun November 19, 2009 09:00 GMT
He has a point, in the last couple of games our pack has been some what under cooked. Every pack that we have put on the pitch since we arrived in the land of mud has been going backwards and there are a few simple reasons. We play dry pitch rugby, a big heavy pack that scrums all year on hard surfaces is not going to go forward until they get used to the conditions. We did not spend enough time there preparing the scrum, so we must not expect to go forward. However, we are still the world champions, we are the Tri-Nation champions and we beat the British and Irish Lions. He can say all he likes about the pack, we beat England on the same type of pitches and thats all there is to say. It has also been a long year for some of these guys and a few of them have never played together either.
So my view is, let him write what ever his little Welsh heart desires, his great props both got destroyed in a matter of minutes in that second test, the may know how to scrum but they are as soft as the English mud.
by Martin Ferreira November 19, 2009 09:00 GMT
Nice comments from a journalist whos country has one soooooo many world cups. Maybe if we change Beast''s surname to Jones he would be considered a good enough player in a country with a rugby team sponsered by "SA Brains"
by Petie November 19, 2009 09:00 GMT
I say we swallow our pride and accept that this dude could actually be right. When last did we truly dominate our opponents scrums for a prolonged period of time. Fortunately for us, our line outs, breakdown play, scrum half, and outside backs have been the best in the world and have been able to compensate for our scrumming weaknesses.
Swallow your pride SA coaches and take heed.
I agree, we are the world champs but if we can sort out our scrum, and allow our overseas players to play, we will become even better!
by Kurt November 19, 2009 09:03 GMT
If he were south african he would be a typical blue bull supporter... Name me ONE prop who has not been demolished in at least one game?? When u get somebody like Os who was solid for 80 tests and has a bad game once you cant call him a bad prop, Os is a legend! IF south african produces such poor props the why do they always get bought by over seas clubs??
by Henk van Wyk November 19, 2009 09:05 GMT
The Boks are tired!!!! It has been a long season for the guys Tri-nations, super 14, currie-cup and the list goes on.
So this tour in Europe really doesn''t mean anything, give the boys a breether and I promise you the Springboks will destroy any team in the world, that is why we are the world cup holders!!!!
Wales and their commentators are good for one thing and that is to speak and speak and when it comes to action well if you watch rugby you will know what I''m speaking about,, LOL!!!!
by My China November 19, 2009 09:05 GMT
One little comment about SA''s props and the whole SA army is on bystand lol Its only a opinion guys. dont let him rush up your blood pressure! He''s got a point tho, big blokes with no forward gears. And telling him to come scrum the Free State Cheetahs, how lame!
by Francis November 19, 2009 09:07 GMT
So if we cant speak about 1 great day for Beast what makes Castrogiovanni so speacial for his one good day?? I must say that if we have such a weak scrum were doing pretty well for winnig 2 world cups. Bloody Welsh!! Drink more beer is should give you more "Brains" or well thats what you think anyway!
by The Justinator November 19, 2009 09:07 GMT
Its interesting that the IRB are cracking down on all the illegal scrummaging. The scrums are very a technical part of the game. When bekker went off the other night, the scrums suddenly changed for the worse. Naas is right, keep resetting the scrums until the guys get it right. Then fitness will come into play. GO BOKKE!
by Mark November 19, 2009 09:11 GMT
When you have won the World Cup - then maybe you may have room to criticise - when was the last time the Welsh won anything worth mentioning ?
by Andy November 19, 2009 09:11 GMT
anyone else out there think this guy is twisting the facts to suit himself and stir the pot like he usually does? (he is famous for it) to mention one game where Os Durant was humiliated and call him a terrible scrummager is a little one sided. What about all the games where Os was doing the humiliation. Not only this, I could go on forever about how one sided this article is.
To all those Bok supporters saying he has a point.. you are correct.. he has ONE point. That our scrums now are not the best. But on all other counts, he is incorrect especially when he starts talking about it as if we have ALWAYS had bad props.. isn''t that what he is trying to say?
Lastly... didn''t we demolish the best of the Brit scrums in the B & I Lions?? I know it was both ways, but our so called weak scrum stood up pretty well against the big Brit names!!
by Asif Ebrahim November 19, 2009 09:21 GMT
Well. With all the rubbish we produced over the years in the scrum we still managed to win two world cups. Why dont Wales and England worry about the record they have against the southern hemisphere teams and leave the scrums to themselves. Tell them to try us in the start of our season and see what happens. Maybe the whole Northern hemisphere will implode at the sight of seeing a fully fit rampaging springbok outfit that dimolishes anything insight. Just ask the allblacks they will tell you.
by worried November 19, 2009 09:22 GMT
Let''s be honest guys, I don''t like what this guy is saying but.......
We have serious issues in the front row!! If you get pushed backwards with Bakkies behind you you have got problems!! I rate John Smit as a Captain, he was awesome in the world cup but I don''t rate him as a prop?? If we can solve this problem, this might just be the best rugby team of all time.(with Jean de Villiers back at centre)
My front row has John Smit back at hooker or not in the team??
by Scott November 19, 2009 09:27 GMT
This article was obviously written by a person who''s never played propper rugby in his life and most certainly never been in a scrum. Stop sniffing that glue mate and come back to reality. SA dominated the scrumbing in the world cup, so what are you on about?
by Andrew November 19, 2009 09:35 GMT
Steven Jones is a typical short sighted idiot looking for a reaction though nonsense journalism. Even my little sister knows that you don''t win The World Cup, The Tri-Nations, beat the Lions and win every rugby trophy that counts with a weak front row- it simply does not happen.
by altaaf November 19, 2009 09:37 GMT
Os played in and won 2 world cup finals! no man in wales or the entire united kingdom can say they''ve accomplished that. i say let the haterz hate. wales and the rest of the wolrd hav 2 more years to try and take our web ellis trophy away from us. good luck to them
by Vernon November 19, 2009 09:40 GMT
Steven Jones is supposed to be talking about rugby not slagging of other rugby nations. All he can do is bitch and moan, especially about the southern hemisphere teams who keep beating the norhern hemispher.......
by ALLBLACKSALWAYS November 19, 2009 09:47 GMT
"Just ask the All Blacks they will tell you"...???? Just as one bad game doesnt make a bad prop one Tri-Nations title (oops sorry you have two) does not mean your the best...and before you reply with World Cups in 1995 you cheated and in 2007 you never played us and then got spanked when you did later that year!!!!! Boks are over-rated as is being born out on their 0-3 Northern Hemisphere Tour. Lost to two club sides - World Champions indeed!!!
by Knowey Tall November 19, 2009 09:47 GMT
Look, Jones is Welsh. This is a man who believes all rugby should be palyed in a stodgy sheep''s paddock (a la the Premiership), match scores should not exceed ten points per team, front of no more than a hundred and fifteen spectators. Just as things were at the very beginning of the last century. Why? Because that''s not the way it is down South. And barring the occasional crumb of success, his cupboard has been ever bare. Jonsey''s been in a very unhappy place for a long time.
by sikho November 19, 2009 09:50 GMT
all the major trophies in the world rugby are in south africa, try nations, webb elllis and super 14, mr jones as much as i respect u, bt jus give me a break and re watch all the bok matches
by Genek Viljoen November 19, 2009 09:51 GMT
as a bok supporterl iving in Perth I may have to agree with this welsh tool, our scrum at athe moment is not up to standard, the aussies smashed us at scrum time , maybe Victor and Bakkies should start pushing a bit in the scrums .John Smit is great captain and was a good hooker but he is not a prop, either retire him or let him play hooker.
by Brett November 19, 2009 09:54 GMT
Someone should remind this oke about the Tri-nations, Two world cups, current Super 14 champs etc etc. I know they could all have gone the other way (see Dan Retiefs report "French Fried"), but they didn''t and we won them all! Not denying the problem we have at the moment though, but I very much doubt we''ve "dominated" for the past ten years...
by Clint Still November 19, 2009 09:58 GMT
How many World Cups have Wales won? When was the last time Wales beat the Boks?
by Mark November 19, 2009 10:08 GMT
It''s simple, no matter how great any sportsman is, they have bad bays and bad patches of form. Is Tiger Woods all of a sudden an aweful golfer because he crumbled in the final round of a major? A simple answer, NO!Steven Jones has done a great job of picking out each one of these players bad days,especiallythe one occasion he can pick Os out on! I hope the Bokke come out and prove a point upfront this weekend!
by Sheepdog November 19, 2009 10:13 GMT
Maybe we don''t have the best front row right now Mr Jones. (The welsh certainly dont have great journalists right now), but i thought the South African typecast was a powerful pack. Which we have, with our locks and glut of loosies. Of course, if we do so poorly in the scrums, the rest of out team must be amazing, we are after all the World Champs, Tri-nations champs....... Somehow i don''t see that admission coming from the not so learned Mr Jones, that man of massive front row experience. Idiot. And hands off the Os, a great and complete player. Julian White is unlikely to be telling everyone he''s better than Os now is he. With your complete knowledge of rugby, maybe you should coach the Welsh team, a bunch of achievers.
by GD November 19, 2009 10:16 GMT
I AGREE WITH THE WELSHY,WE ARE GETTING A HIDING AT SCRUM TIME.IF WE DONT BEAT ITALY BY A REASONABLE MARGIN I AM NOT GOING TO THE NEXT WORLD CUP IN NEW ZEALAND BECAUSE THERE WILL BE NO WAY BACK FOR THE BOKS.RATHER GO AND LIE ON THE BEACH.OUR CURRENT PERFORMANCES ARE DISMAL TO SAY THE LEAST AND IT WILL BE EARLY DEPARTURE FOR THE BOKS.MAYBE THE ''GOLDEN'' PERSON RESPONSIBLE FOR OUR SCRUM COACHING SHOULD BE THE ONE UNDER SCRUTINY ALONG WITH OUR BELOVED HEAD COACH.THE PASSION AND PRIDE SEEMS TO BE GONE FROM THE TEAM AND THE BOK JERSEY.WHAT A TERRIBLE SHAME.
by Durban Boy November 19, 2009 10:28 GMT
Mr Jones obviously has missed out on following rugby over the last 2o years. You cannot judge the Springboks on a couple of performances. This team is being rebuilt and this tour is to blood youngsters and determine what shortcomings we have. Why is it that an ''expert'' from Wales (who have won nothing except the paltry 6 nations) opinion is taken seriously, especially when he knocks a 2 time world cup winner like Os. You dont win World Cups by going backwards in the scrums. Come on guys this guy is dead jealous Springbok rugby is flying high and that at the moment our boys are the biggest draw in world rugby.
by MARTIN November 19, 2009 10:29 GMT
I AGREE WITH JONES I THINK DIV SHOULD JUST PUT JOHN BACK TO HOOKER OR BRING STRUAAS ON TO HOOKER. LOOK I LIKE BISMARCK BECAUSE HE IS A SHARK, BUT HE IS A BIT TO LONG FOR HOOKER.
THE BOKS IS KING.WE WILL SHOW THE ITALIANS WHAT IS LEGAL SCRUMAGING.
by Budgie November 19, 2009 10:41 GMT
Sorry, Steph......how many times has Wales won the World Cup.........sorry can''t you........
by Teddy November 19, 2009 10:45 GMT
If you look at the histroy books, SH teams generally scrapes though victors over NH teams in Nov. Reasons being away disadvantage, wet conditions & end of our season. When they come in June every now and then, SH teams pump them by 30. Standard procedure!
by tag November 19, 2009 10:48 GMT
Cobus Visagie
by Myle November 19, 2009 10:49 GMT
I think PdV and Gary Gold must print this article and give it to the players this weekend and next weekend against Italy and Ireland...no need for a forward team talk...enough motivation...
by A Jacobs November 19, 2009 10:53 GMT
I do not think this Welsh "journalist" has told all the truths about our Springbok props,although I agree on current performance it looks like we are a bit scared of confrontation upfront.Maybe its the lond season,maybe its not knowing each other well enough and the locks and flanks support is not in sync.So,not to my own testament, I must agree that we have been outplayed lately.I do however feel that he is full of it and he is as biased as Aussie cricket commentators.The poor Welsh,English,Irish & Scottish teams have done absolutely nothing against the southern teams in the last 30 years ( A lifetime for some people). And if they stop giving backhand bonuses to the english dispicable referees,we might have fair contests for our boys some day.As a referee myseld, I cringe every time the whistle goes for no apparent reason against SA, but they can dive over the ball,play the ball on the ground and be offside at every scrum,lineout & ruck ,but suddenly the moronic referees do not see THOSE blatant penalty infringements!! What a load of rubbish,like beaten-up children who does not know how to fight fairly anymore.
by mata November 19, 2009 10:54 GMT
Since J.Smit moved to prop, SA srum have gone through a transformation phase and yes we have been going backwards a lot in Europe, this year. And like all phases they come to an end, Our Captain is a decents prop (Won the Tri Nations and Beat the British & Irish Lions), I can not wait to see what happens when he becomes a great prop. SA has produced great front rowers and some of them are playing in Europe, SA players are in a class of their own. European Nations are just not worthy opponets for the Southern Hemisphere teams,The welsh WERE six nations champion last year and we hammered them with a below average perfomance from the Boks. and Os is a legend, Botha is class, CJ is great, du preez is gona cause havoc in the future. Mr Jones, your comments are very nasty and all except one, are false, and yes SA scrumming at the moment are not up to standard.
by Jan November 19, 2009 10:55 GMT
Call it bias, call it a total lack of knowledge or selective memory, but Mr Jones forgot a certain WP, Stormers and Springbok prop who decided to play his trade abroad and won the forward of the year award twice and the player of the year (back and forwards included) in the scrummaging cauldron that is the Heineken Cup... a certain Cobus Visagie. Do agree though that we have massive issues at scrum time and a lot of talent is going to waste due to poor selection.
by DR November 19, 2009 10:58 GMT
If this was written by a Kiwi or an Ozzie, hell even a Pom i would take it seriously ................... but it was was written by a Welshman??? What they hell do they know about scrumming ???? I can''t think of one Welsh prop who has ever made a name for himself on the world stage !!!! THIS GUY IS A TOP CHOP !!!
by T November 19, 2009 11:04 GMT
This guy is the epitome of a UK sports journalist. Totally insufferable. Its one thing to discuss that scrumming is a weak point for the current Boks (which it is) but the Tone and shear verocity of the argument is highly unproffesional regardsless of his home nation. To insult some of the players the way he has is unacceptable and Im sure Welsh and british rugby people IN THE KNOW are highly embarrased. You dont see other countries journalists talking about how flat-footed and ugly the welsh backline is. Do you?
I guess it comes with the territory of being the best side in the world. But a little bit of respect is in order. Calling a man who played in two world cup finals of a period of 12 years "overrated" is stepping over the line. Os was highly rated by players from around the world over his illustrious career. Im afraid, Mr Jones, you have it wrong as usual.
Some STATS just for fun:
SA vs Wales:
Played 23 matches SA won 21 Wales won 1 (..........and will we ever hear the end of that!!!!!) Drawn 1
Os was Man of the Match (semifinal vs Agrentina) and played all 80 mins in the final in 2007 WC. The only overrated thing I see is your meaningless dribble.
by megeshin November 19, 2009 11:08 GMT
Bring the Cheetas front row on...
by Kat November 19, 2009 11:09 GMT
Cobus Visagie (3 man) , he was one of the best in SA.
by Roderique November 19, 2009 11:10 GMT
This guy does not know what he''s talking about. Same like the refs that officiate the games, send them on training courses (include Jones)
by HG November 19, 2009 11:13 GMT
He is right - springbok forwards have big egos - on this tour they are being shown up as sissies!
by B Day November 19, 2009 11:15 GMT
This "pillik" needs to read the Web Ellis Trophy.
by Colin November 19, 2009 11:20 GMT
Thanks for your own evaluation of Welsh Commentators! Talk about blowing up your own hole! Can''t really believe anything such a man has to say!
by Michael Truswell November 19, 2009 11:21 GMT
Welsh commentators are dodgy characters and now welsh writers have just been added to the list! Os is a legend, he played over 80 tests and you single out one game where he went back! How many times did he scrum the opposition into oblivion? Agreed though on some of your comments. John Smit is one of my all time great players and a heroic leader. I would play him at hooker, very strong. BJ Botha at tight head and Tendai at loose head!
by Arthur November 19, 2009 11:23 GMT
Well i can be wrong. But i think the locks play a big role in this. You can''t just blame the props for the poor performance and it should be the props hooker and locks that should work on it. Yes Matfield may be the best line out jumper in the world. Hes scrumming may not be that good. And our props when going in can do so with a little more power they look scared sometimes.
by Rassie(prop) November 19, 2009 11:24 GMT
Laugh now Mr Jones... cause you gonna battle to laugh with a borken jaw !
by Wayne November 19, 2009 11:25 GMT
Yes, we haven''t performed well at scrum time, but I am not surprised as to the extreme differences between referee''s interpretations of the scrum laws. It is so confusing for the spectators as they seem to blow things differently each game. I am sure the packs must be confused. I do believe that we have technical problems, and the players need to raise their games, but bad refereeing needs to be addressed.
by Slackster November 19, 2009 11:27 GMT
Guys, whether he is Welsh, whether we are World Champs etc is irrelevant, we need to address the problem. There is no doubt our scrum in all 3 games got stuffed, and was decidedly creacky in the tri nations. I was a flyhalf so what I know about what those big buggers do upfront but reckon we need to take Os and other experts from around the world and sort it. The aussies did that an now by their standards have improved. We have the raw material and passion but that is not translating into performance. The bottom line is no Springbok scrum should ever go backward ever.
by dumpie November 19, 2009 11:30 GMT
Well done you are a great writer but please keep your rugby knowledge t o yourself because is very poor! We are the best team in the world, with the best players but we need to select the right players. Look at the best scrumming front row in the currie cup.
1. Wicus Blaauw/ Wian du preez 2. Tiaan Liebenberg 3. Wp Nel
We NEED to select these guys because they are our future big ones.
Go bokke
by Sello Malatji November 19, 2009 11:37 GMT
Mr Jones, we have won 2 world cups and i do not care what you say or think just look closer to how many games the Welsh have won against the Springboks and then comment?
by AldoTeo November 19, 2009 11:49 GMT
wow, jealousy is a horrible thing hey?! don''t get us started on your over rated...no wait. nothing from wales is even rated to start with! what a fool. You''d be hard pressed to find 1 single player in the history of the game that didn''t at least have 1 bad game for his country as a regular starter. so well done Mr Jones. you''ve researched well and found the single game that Os played badly in. it''s you who in fact are over rating yourself if you consider this journalism.
by Troll November 19, 2009 11:53 GMT
Between winning the world cup and now, our scrum has become one of the weakest around. Out set phases used to be our strong point and now we''re lucky if we win our own ball.
I think every british writer is chomping at the bit to document our demise. It''s the only thing nursing their defeated BIL tour.
The question has to be asked: How did it get this bad?
I still believe if the Bulls had run on to play they would have wiped the floor with those teams.
We all know the Bok/Sharks fornt row isn''t the greatest when it comes to scrum time, but generally make up for it in loose play, and team morale in Smit''s case.
SA has a wealth of talent, but this tour has showed us how a pack of forwards can be used as an attacking force.
This article is pretty juvenile. I''d like to see one Welsh prop with a World Cup medal. The "humiliated" Os has two. Put that in your pipe and smoke it.
When the Welsh win anything of significance then they can talk.
BOKKE FOREVER.
by Johnnie November 19, 2009 11:57 GMT
Can''t blame the guy. Pieter de Villiers and the selectors gave him the bullets!!!
by Gerrit Wium November 19, 2009 11:58 GMT
I love it when a man puts out the bait and everybody snaps it up. I love my rugby and my team has cost me a lot of money betting on them, but my real passion is fishing. So pick up the bait boys I will catch you, or swim past and let us stand up and be counted in the front row. The boys are still my favourites.
by Anthony van Rensburg - SA November 19, 2009 11:58 GMT
Spot on. For many a year, in fact the last 30 years or so, I have never seen a Bok pack dominate at scrumtime or in the possession stakes. There is not one international pack in the top 10 that we can dominate.
by Bobby November 19, 2009 12:01 GMT
Jones''ie - you are referring to bad days at the office by some of these men (although you might have half a point with the likes of a few of them) but if we were to subscribe to your views of a bad day at the office = bad player (or scrummer in this case). I guess we could say that Don Bradman was a crap batsmen cause he got a duck in his last innings????
your piece did make me chuckle - the comments are great! bad scrummers or not we are still better then the welsh at this game! perhaps you can write about that next time...
by Kenneth November 19, 2009 12:01 GMT
Hey Supersport, can''t you dig up some scrumming stats from the last few years. Not sure how difficult that would be but it would be very interesting to see them.
by Patrick November 19, 2009 12:04 GMT
The scrum needs sorting out, for sure.
But if I had to start writing down what is wrong with the Welsh Rugby team, I could fill a book! It would cover every position on the field!
We will live with a battling front row, if we are World Champions, Super 14 Champions, Tri-Nations champions all at the same time...
Awful reporting. Is style is insulting, typical of that British self loathing for being so poor at everything.
by SpringboksAlways November 19, 2009 12:08 GMT
I''m sure it is apparent for most diehard rugby supporters that the focus of the modern game is the balance between mobility and strength in the scrums. SA has put a little too much emphases on front and back row mobility that it is starting to put the team under pressure. Of course it is an area that will receive attention by the Boks. As for "ALLBLACKSALWAYS" comments. I will put my money on the fact that this palooka is most probably not born a New Zealander but merely riding on the All Blacks extraordinary success in this game of rugga. All the Blacks supporters I know don’t need to descend to this level of mudslinging, as for Mr. Jones...I don’t expect anything else. Looks at the scoreboard! ;-)
by ashley November 19, 2009 12:09 GMT
Two words comes to mind....dumb....ass. What the hell we the world champs, give us some respect we have earned it!! the world can not take it when south african rugby is at the top!!! and OS , BROTHER DONT GO THERE!!BEST PROP SA HAS EVER HAD MR DUMB....ASS!! i wonder if i am actually insulting a ass(donkey) by Associating it with u!!!!
by Jon November 19, 2009 12:10 GMT
Love your work Jone''s
You Welsh will never change!! A quick reminder of a couple Trophies in our cabinets in SA:
1) Tri nations 2) World Cup 3) Super 14
We welcome you to SA any time and I am sure the boys are relishing the chance to play Wales soon...
by tertius November 19, 2009 12:12 GMT
coming from a welsh perspective stephen doesnt meen much .get rid of bismark du plessis and put john smit were he belongs .already athird of your problem solved
by N Sibisi November 19, 2009 12:13 GMT
I think Mr Jones should remember that last year when we played our worst rugby in the last 3-4 years we beat a welsh side that was "highly rated". And true the day that Wales win a world cup or even take a sniff at the semi-final is the day I might take Welsh rugby seriously. I even favor the Argies more than Wales.
by Steve November 19, 2009 12:17 GMT
Well stephen. It just so happens to be that all those props mentioned who have played against wales have NEVER lost against your country. Until the players in welsh rugby are something worth mentioning, wales atleast manage to make it into a final of a world cup or beat ''The country with the most over rated props'''' then maybe someone might take you seriously. Ps: Think twice before you ridicule a country who have an overwhelming record over yours
by Ben November 19, 2009 12:18 GMT
Well written article with some great points. Sadly though as is the case with all the British press, they get drunk on the slightest sniff of weakness and get stuck in and don''t stop until they get a nose bleed. I''m sure a lot of International props wish that a nose bleed was all they got after an afternoon with Os. He is a legend and will long be known as such by all that played against him.
Jones (unique name for a Welshman) is going a bit far here, speaking about Os like that is like us saying that Tom Jones is a lousy singer. Im sure Sherley Bassy showed him up from time to time , much like Julian White did at Twickenham 2 years ago. Perhaps the weight of another world cup winners medal was weighing Os down a touch.
by Alex November 19, 2009 12:19 GMT
As hard as it is to swallow, he speaks a lot of truth in his article. So many times i have heard how this year''s scrum is terrible compared to the past, but is it really? Think back on the past 10 years or so - have we ever had a front row that truly dominated ALL other teams? No, we haven''t, and we''ve been quite poor for a while now. We''ve been able to hold our own, but we''ve never dominated.
We need to take a leaf out of the Northern Hemisphere''s book when it comes to scrummaging. England, France, Wales, Scotland, Italy and Ireland have never had poor scrums, and we never get the better of them on our end of year tours. With the exception of Argentina, southern hemisphere scrums are particularly poor. Maybe import some Argentinians or hire an argentine scrum coach.
I''m glad people have finally been able to see that props like CJ are not the solution to our scrum problem. For goodness sake, when he was in the SA team, we NEVER demolished any scrums! We just didn''t seem to go backwards as much. SA props are not at all highly regarded in the Northern Hemisphere, especially when compared with their european counterparts.
Lets hope we can handle Castrogiovanni this weekend, or we might get a big surprise....
by Mike November 19, 2009 12:20 GMT
Jones is a ****, but I would like to see the boks scrum better... we should be the best in the scrum... we''re not... we don''t pick the best players. I am a sharks fan... but the sharks don''t have the best front row - yet we always pick them. Make Smit hooker again and get some nice bulls and cheaters boys next to him and we''ll be fine. Lets make Jones eat his words.
by D.Holder November 19, 2009 12:30 GMT
Oh oh oh wait..... i see, he is obviously talking from all the experience he gained in scrumming against the Springboks. And from watching Wales win so many titles. Right..........
by Chris November 19, 2009 12:32 GMT
This is the nearest you guys will come to a world cup....Keep it up Stephen
by SJ November 19, 2009 12:34 GMT
Good old Jones having a crack at the Bok big boys......... and why not they have been scrummed into the ground on this tour. Belittling, sarcasm and verbal abuse is common to the British Isles and by this article probably more so in Wales. What South Africans are missing (and might actually need to put a collection towards) is that Jones in his self absorbed world is a fantastic motivator for Springbok rugby. He has riled up the South African public and players and hopefully this weekend we are in for an absolute cracker and smorgerboard of hard, flowing and well executed rugby instead of the dribble we have been watching thus far.
As far as Jones and his comments of past Bok props - he doesnt believe what he writes he merely wants to see the South African publics response...... and you are giving him exactly what he wants.
by Raditshaba Mahasha November 19, 2009 12:36 GMT
Every team has got its ups and downs and i guess the Boks are just tired and they will recover and beat the hell out of the northern hermisphere teams. Their time is coming. We are building for 2011
by johann November 19, 2009 12:43 GMT
Dit is snaaks dat Paddy O''brian vir die all backs kan omverskoning vra vir die hanterining van die skrum deur die ref, maar daar word nerens genoem hoe die ref''s teen ons skrum blaas nie.
Daar is absoluut niks fout met die SA stutte nie en soos Div al genoem het is hulle kry nie bevredigende antwoorde uit die ref''s uit oor wat hulle foutief doen nie en dit beeinvloed hulle selfvertroue.
by George Webb November 19, 2009 12:43 GMT
It is true our forward pack has not performed on tour. Yes our props have been shown up. To go on about props like Os is showing ignorance. The Beast made Vickery look stupid! But now it was the Ref & illegal scrumming??? We won the Tri-Nations against the best two other teams, we won the Super14 against the two other best rugby playing nations? What it really is at the moment our players and especially our forwards are tired. This was warned against by Dr Tim Noakes and the results are showing. Dear Mr Jones you are either a "poepol" regarding your knowledge of the modern game or you had one to many when you "wrote" your comments
by Hennie Basson November 19, 2009 12:46 GMT
Right, this is how it goes...He is a journalist, which is fair enough, thats his job, to criticize every little opportunity he gets...I do agree with a lot of his statements, but yet again...leave Oom Os alone. Another thing, he makes it sound as if no rugby player goes through a rough patch?? Thats rugby and thats how it goes. You play brilliantly now, and on the next tour, you cannot do a thing right. So keep on butchering the Boks, we are still the World Champs, Tri nations champs, Super 14 champs and Winners of the British Ilse tour....Only cup we dont have is the Six Nations Cup....Well, enough said about that.
Go on Bokke!!!
by ronnie November 19, 2009 12:49 GMT
Well nice one Mr jones.You have a few good points on Guthro Steenkamp.But you know, the biggest problem about northen hemisphere rugby players is they can''t handle it when they loose over and over and over and over again.Wake up you fool!!Over the past few years Welsh havent won any games against SA and now you try to dig up nonsense like that to make a statement.You can say what you want about SA props but in the end it is the scoreboard that matters if you haven''t realised!!
Yóú think you can take one or two performences of a player and then rate his ability on that?Well most of the performences you wrote in your article like OS was years ago.The Boks wasted England in the WC Final.Where was Phil Vickery''s Amazing scruming ability then?Os is known as a ledgend rugby player all over the world.So count youre words carefully soutie!
by Big Bloak November 19, 2009 12:53 GMT
Will the real Welsh prop please stand up!?
by Mat November 19, 2009 12:53 GMT
Im not sure what is happening with refs and scrums does anyone know ?
by Nelis Erasmus November 19, 2009 12:58 GMT
Just two qeustions Stefhen....how many world cups did Wales win with there massive frontrow players???? And in how many scrums the you set????
GO BOKKE
by Hennie November 19, 2009 12:58 GMT
Amen, to all the good remarks!!!!
by Ernest November 19, 2009 13:03 GMT
Please show a picture of this clown, we can arrange for Os to meet him in a bar somewere in Bloemfontein.He is most problably nothing more than a nerd with a pen in his pocket and glasses as thick as coke botles, wonder if he playd tennis at school?
by Joe November 19, 2009 13:07 GMT
I think Jones is taking his point to the n''th degree a bit, but there is some semelence of truth in what he says. Our "feared" props have not impressed on this tour at all. One has to ask the question as to why (regardless of which props they play) the scrum is not working - perhaps that is not where the problem lies ? Could the other 5 positions outside the front row possibly need some looking at with their techniques or cohesion ?
for example, if you watch the saracens game, Ashley Johnson was hardly ever head down and pushing, and also had poor ball control (at times) at the back of the scrum.
by Nick November 19, 2009 13:08 GMT
Well obviously Mr.Jones doesn''t want to visit SA again.
by Lance Dixon November 19, 2009 13:08 GMT
The sad thing is that although there may be some truth in what Mr.Jones has to say the Springbok scrum has yet to be challenged by a Welsh scrum and the results are harsh proof of that. Other than a Golden age in which the Welsh produced a string of brillianty individuakl players the rugby appears to have lurched from one crises to the enxt having won one sic/five nations since God knows when and even that was totally unexpected and was not repeated . A one off wonder by a bunch of under achievers.
Journalism standards , well that is another story and Mr Jones may well want to draw a number of parallels between the general reporting by the UK based journalists and his assesment of the Springbok scrum. Personally I found the overseas reporters including the Lions tour period to be hysterical and incredibly one sided. There does seem to be a common ability to blame everything other than the facts and that was simply " we did not win because we were not good enough". An incredible ability to point fingers at the Springboks and pass blame on and a total inability to accept responsibility.A clear ability to write in an over promise and undedeliver frame of mind fuelled by an expectation which to me was totally unrealistic was never a good base off which to form a sound and balanced opinion. I can not point fingers directly at Mr Jones but over the Lions tour I read what was in my opinion some of the worst and most unbalanced rugby reproting I have ever seen in my life even including the height of the WP / Northern Transvaal battles of the 70 ''s and 80 s where one sided reprting was what appeared to be a way of life in some cases. So perhaps our front rankers can take up writing and Mr Jones can come and scrum for us as he does appear to be an expert who knows it all.
One also forgets that Saracens was coached by a South Afriican and the line up was totally dominated by South Africans as is there Cricket side . Few Premiership sides do not have South Africans in them at one level or another including the front row with others still trying to recruit South Africans. How many Welsh oplayers turned out in the Super 14 , The Currie cup or anything other than the Premiership.
On top of this our guys have had a season from hell, Super 14 final, Lions Tour, Tri Nations Currie Cup Final and sio on and so on and it is quite apparant that they should not even be touring . They have been overplayed and the evidence of that is quite clear and for that SARU needs to accept reponsibility because at this rate some of tehse dudes are simply niot going to make it to the next World Cup , but with that in mind I beleive we would still quite comfortably handle the Welsh side.
No I am sure that this man has a healthy sense of humour as many of the Welsh do and is simply trying to goad us .
by Barry November 19, 2009 13:09 GMT
You can have the best props in the world. If the locks don''t come to the party, you have problems. If the pack does not practice scrimmaging together often (more than a few days before the game) you have problems. I like John Smit and admire him for everything he has achieved. He is not a tight head prop anymore!
And then....... the scrum law.........can someone please explain how the hell it works? Because I have seen different interpretations in the same game (SA vs. France). At the moment, the referees are guessing!!! They have no idea what the causes of certain bad scrumming results are. Chances are they never will!
by welsh wanker November 19, 2009 13:09 GMT
nice try jones.if your countryman can win a world cup or atleast compete, we may then take your comments seriously.go and mine some more coal ou silly chop
by Johan in Freo November 19, 2009 13:11 GMT
He''s correct in many things - how can a guy like OS take no-names and thump Springbok front rows - Sharks in semis and Bulls in the final? Something is seriously wrong with Bok - loosies got their heads out? Gold clearly isn''t the man - why not get Os to sort out the scrum, and Eddy Jones to sort out the backline - like he did in 4 weeks before 2007 RWC (what Alistair Coetzee couldn''t do in 4 years!
by ardugpc November 19, 2009 13:12 GMT
What else do you expect from this guy, there no proper rugby in the Northern Hemisphere so all he can do is "verbal diaree" about other teams, Wonder if he knows that Wales have not played in any World Cup Final thus far. Go one Jonesy, tickle yourself
by John November 19, 2009 13:16 GMT
Although most of what Mr Jones has said in his "unbiased" report is total garbage, we all have to acknowledge that the Springbok scrum is weak. Our focus has shifted from basic scrum techniques to having mobile forwards who are able to get to the break down point before the opposition, or at least that''s the theory, as even this doesn''t occur on a regular basis. It''s time our coaches let the referees ref the game and they got down to doing there job and coached the team. Let''s take the criticism on the chin and do something about it......
by Jaap Naude November 19, 2009 13:24 GMT
This article does not deserve all the attention it is getting. It been proven through the years that the tallest trees catches the wind. Sa rugby will be criticised from all directions because they have been dominating world rugby in recent times the slightest failure will be blowen out of proportion, just like the Bulls are currently drawing fire back home.
by Niel November 19, 2009 13:25 GMT
I must say, i thoroughly enjoy the fact that there is not one welsh player is mentioned in his article. I think he might have shot himself in the foot..
I do hope he doesn''t run into a springbok supporter when he visits sa again, it might be a painful experience..
Strangely enough, i do think perception of a person or team has it''s limits, beyond that it''s purely about who''s better.. but then again, the welsh have never been very good losers..
by Grumble November 19, 2009 13:26 GMT
Does anyone still actually read the drivel that Jones spews out.
by Bull perd November 19, 2009 13:30 GMT
I must admid 60% of his comments are true. 3 guys that he could never say that about was Hempies du toit, Richard Bands and Jan Lock
Bottom line is we do have a seroius problem currently in the scrum and how quicker we admit it how quicker something can be done to resolve it!
by Dewald November 19, 2009 13:37 GMT
Reigning World Champions. Check. Beaten the Lions. Check. Reigning Tri Nations champions. Check.
Not bad I''d say - and according to Mr. Jones done with 13 players and 2 "Big Blokes Going Backwards"
by Ossewa November 19, 2009 13:39 GMT
Most tries Conceded in a Test 15 by South Africa (Pretoria: 1998) 13 by England (Blackheath: 1881) 12 by Scotland (Raeburn Place: 1887) YES MR jONES THIS IS YOUR WELSH TEAM HAHAHA
by Albert November 19, 2009 13:58 GMT
Spot on... selectors have an agenda... recent results speak for themselves... also, too many players survive on past reputation... it takes about five years for the selectors to figure out that some players have lost their brilliance many moons ago... great job, Mr. Jones... a few home truths mixed with good humor make for a good read.
by JJ November 19, 2009 14:09 GMT
Do sportswriters actually get paid to write such bull! Factually incorrect nonsense. I admit our scrums are battling at the moment, but that we have never had good props or forwards - sorry Mr Jones - you haven''t been watching rugby for very long. That also goes for Mr Dan Retief''s comments that the Springboks are not as good as we think - that after the successive losses on tour. Really guys, do you want to tell me winning the World Cup, Tri Nations, Lions & Super 14 (same players) were all luck! Sorry but I am losing interest in the comments of these so-called experts.
by hanno November 19, 2009 14:18 GMT
Easy: World cups: Os Du Randt ,on his own:2. The entire population of Wales,including their wonderful props(and this very knowledgeable "journalist"):0. Anyone who takes such garbage seriously deserves to be upset.
by Drushan November 19, 2009 14:18 GMT
Maak al die WP Forwards Bokke
by Justin November 19, 2009 14:20 GMT
Please foward this onto the man himself....
Stephen, Stephen, Stephen...why do you rather stick to what you know best - critising the English side like everyone else and stop trying find to look for soemthing else to write about!! Just in case you may have forgotten-
Super14 Champs Word Chmapions Tri Nations champs Lion Series winners
I guess we won those with a rubbish scrum. Imgaine what we could do if we had a ''better scrum''
by Justin November 19, 2009 14:27 GMT
Granted our scrumming lacks the bite is used to but for the right occassion we have more then held our own
Anyhow who cares the plonker Steven Jones thinks - this is the same guy who said that Dan Lyle (excatly, who?) was the best eigth man on teh planet in 1997/8 - when Gary Teichman and Zinzan Brook were still on the scene, so he clearly cant be taken seriously
by ewen November 19, 2009 14:44 GMT
One eyed reporting in the main, but sometimes the truth hurts and if we don''t get our act together we will be humiliated at the RWC in NZ. Time to make changes now and retire a few tired heroes such as John Smit.
by bryan November 19, 2009 15:20 GMT
we''re already on our 2nd trophy cabinet while the Welsh cabinet is collecting dust,better put it to good use and put it on the fire for a BRAAI,you plonker!
by Kallie November 19, 2009 15:26 GMT
Must be said and that is probable what Mr Jones Remember,The front row against Lescter.Hallo Mr Jones Saracens is a South African side full of SA Players so you actually contridicted yourself your fool.Our scrum were a disgrace against the Tigers maybe the selectors must start to listen to sa sport writers and Os who asked the question,where was du Preez and wp nel when the squat was selected.Go and scrum ireland in their moer in.Show the above letter to the Bokke.
by neil November 19, 2009 15:39 GMT
i whould like to say stephan jones please dont be jelous becouse the welsh cant play rugby its just shocking that you had nothing to say about derric barns and his phathetic refereeing skills i dont know how he ever was apointed as an international refferee it is just funny that he picks on sa players but half of all the club players in england and france are south african hmmm... just wondering and dont get me started on your pathetic criket team so boet if you dont have enything good to say please shut up we are and still the best nation in the world and o ja world champs aswell kind regards
by Jasper November 19, 2009 15:52 GMT
Yes we do have the trophies to show, but guys let''s be honest; Mr Jones, unfortunately, is spot on. We would really be near invincible if only we have a half-decent front row. Even so let us support, hear and soul, the front row we have at the moment, they are giving it their everything. Bokke bo!
by Jaco Pieters November 19, 2009 16:01 GMT
Mr Jones has a big mouth since SA is not playing the Welsh on this trip. Now imagine if the Boks does manage to find a prop or 2, then we would win every world cup and not just every 3rd AND most importantly, Wales will not even get a sniff in beating the Boks EVER again, never mind once in a 100 years.
Not even the refs will be able to beat the Boks!
Give it to him he does have point about Guthro, Sephaka and Ollie though.
by Jay du Toit November 19, 2009 16:02 GMT
At least he got one thing right - Australasian refs are CRAP!
by pieter November 19, 2009 16:16 GMT
jones was a backline player and welsh so take it all with a pinch of salt he doesnt have a clue.
one thing i would like to bring up and one thing only as i think it is enough HOW MANY PROPS DID THE LIONS GO THROUGH AGAINST THE SAME FRONT ROW OF BOKKE.
by Rich November 19, 2009 16:22 GMT
While the Bok scrum may be struggling at the moment, I would ignore anything Stephen Jones says. According to Jones, England has the world''s best rugby players, the Six Nations is better than the tri-nations, the Heineken Cup is better than the Super 14, etc etc. Whenever results on the field suggest otherwise, it is of course because the ref was biased, the opposition cheated, or it was the weather, the heat, the cold, the travel, the food, their best player was injured.... you get the picture, but never, ever, in their entire history has England or the BIL lost because they were just beaten by the better team. The Poms naturally lap up everything he says, and declare him an expert and give him a newspaper column because he tells them exactly what they want to hear: they would rather believe that their team were cheated out of victory rather than admitting that they just aren''t that good. You only have to read a bit of his wining after the Lions lost to see that he is a seriously bitter, angry man. He will never pass on an opportunity to have a go at the Boks or the AB''s, his other pet hate, to try to justify his beliefs and make the Poms feel better about their team. Best thing is to just ignore him and enjoy watching our world champs keep on beating the poms
by giovanni November 19, 2009 16:33 GMT
It is funny how he mentions just one bad game from the guys above and they all happen to be at Twickenham. Slightly biased i would say. I think we all just remembered why we hate the U.K so much.
by R la cock November 19, 2009 17:00 GMT
Normally i don''t have a problem with the Welsh.. they love rugby and its always great to see theire passion. Mr Jones (Another inbreed its seems) got some points our scrum has been crap for sometime now.
My turn at been a journalist, Wales suck generally in all departments, they''ve only beaten the Springboks once, drew once while the Springboks killed them the other 21 times including a 96-13 trashing.
by Dean Hastie November 19, 2009 17:09 GMT
He has got a few points and yes we are battling in the scrums. But to go and be such a toss about it and tell us we are basically a nothing nation? Oh well 2 world cups to mention a few. Its like a South African journalist giving his opinion on Jampanese Karate, Stay out of it Welshman..
by andrew November 19, 2009 17:13 GMT
2 World cups in 4 attempts, both with Os in the engine room. Need I say more?
by Christian Trublet de Nermont November 19, 2009 17:23 GMT
First things first: You cannot expect a team thats been together for a week to be able to perform against a pack thats been together for seasons. Plus, you cant win when the ref is so shockingly bad in interpretating. And all he does id give one game as a reference for or poor props. And as for Os; bru, you just burnt a SA rugby equivalent of a bible. The oke cover tackles Rockocoko into touch. Hes won two world cups,come back three times from injury and is one of the best looseheads of all time. Oh, he''s also beaten the all blacks a few times (even in a RWC final; at mid twenties!). When the last time a welhman beat the all blacks? or done anything significant? My bet is a Tom Jones or MUSE hit. tosser...
by Rohan November 19, 2009 17:39 GMT
Normally if a scrum is as bad as this plonker makes out, teams do not win. So his words don''t really hold true if you look at our record this year. Our "B" team, who have only had a few practices together, may have suffered in these 2 games but in there first game as a front row together against Leicester, the props were an Argentine and an Italian who have 80 international caps between them. And because of injuries it was again the first time the new front row had played together against Saracens or should I say "South Africa C team" there were so many of them playing, there were only 4 British players in that team. I will admit the scrum is not our strongest part of our game at the moment but it''s nowhere near as bad as this idiot is saying. Typical british press, bunch of monkeys.
by Kurt November 19, 2009 18:30 GMT
It''s not his fault he''s a Welshman or Taff. Pretty dim, backward bunch who dwell in the sleepy valleys of Great Britain. I wonder if the clown knows how many times they have beaten the Springboks, or how many world cups the Welsh have won!
by kevin - ndola (zambia) November 19, 2009 18:42 GMT
''Leading Lardbottoms''??? Let''s start a list of ''Favourite Fatheads'' - where shall we put Mr Jones on such a list? His comments seem to be based on a player''s single bad game (which all players must have at some point). I''m not taking him too seriously - a lot of journos use this tactic to get noticed. Controversy sells, I suppose.
by Andrew November 19, 2009 18:54 GMT
Dear Stephen.
How do you win two rugby world cups without good scrummagers? Also note that Os was the loose-head in both those world cup finals. Maybe when Wales make it past the round robin stages of a world cup you can open your pie-hole again.
Thanks for trying, but for now we respectfully decline to take you seriously.
by Sportsnuts from Canada November 19, 2009 19:02 GMT
A couple of things: A good scrum is a combination of 8 guys working together - the slightest lack of co-ordination can mean the scrumming gets smoked. Wales has a couple of short backed guys who get very low and consequetly don''t get worked over. They''re also pretty anonymous in the tight loose. I''d rather have a front row who can hold their own in the scrums rather than dominate but be all round players. This year end tour never does much for South Africa, it''s always at the end of the season after S14, inbound tours, Tri Nations and Currie Cup when the guys are toast. The midweek team should not be referred to as Springboks - they are not the current next best 15, but rather a development squad of young, maturing players who we hope to become part of the core of the team within the next 2-4 years, so that when some of the old stalwarts like Victor, Bakkies, John S, Fourie duP hang up their boots, the transition is less dramatic . They practice together for what 2 weeks?
by Ash November 19, 2009 19:42 GMT
Pity not too much dialogue on Welsh front rows, or indeed Welsh success against Springboks. If memory serves me correct, I do believe our Head - to - Head with Wales is Played 23, Won 21, Draw 1. Wales winning just 1, opening their new stadium..........
by Loskop November 19, 2009 19:44 GMT
Haha. Well if he was wrong about the bok scrummaging, then he is obviously wrong about the Welsh having half-decent sportswriters as well! That was a load of garbage!
by Jeremiah November 19, 2009 20:25 GMT
good to see most of you guys agree you no longer have the best scrum in the southern hemisphere or in the world. The French have.
by mozart November 19, 2009 20:55 GMT
He forgot flexing Faan Rautenbach, Eddie Andrews and Brian Mujati. Jones is right our props have been fairly ordinary the last 8 years or so. By contrast though, our locks have been the best in the world. The war is not about the individual battles, it is cut from whole cloth.
by Mike November 19, 2009 20:59 GMT
What an idiot?! somone really needs to confront this biased, knowlegdless and missinformed welsh idiot!! possibly needs a new pair of glasses cus i dont think me and him saw the same os play those 80 tests? when a welshman wins 2 world cup winners medals then he can come talk his crap about another country. he appals me and he must shut his trap! BOKKE TILL I DIE!
by Van November 19, 2009 21:14 GMT
Os is Ayoba!
by Carl November 19, 2009 21:19 GMT
The SA Scrums are rubbish. Unless we pull our heads out from our backsides we will be crushed next Tri Nations and humiliated in 2011.
by Rowan Ellis November 19, 2009 22:16 GMT
Are his comments even relevant?
Rugby must seriously have changed over the years, if you can be World Champs, Tri Nations Champs, Super 14 Champs, Victory over the Lions and yet still have such shite props. The welsh Trophy Cabinet is very drafty at the moment. Ours is full, we need another one.
by JP November 19, 2009 22:47 GMT
Stephen Jones is paid by the Sunday Times to write provocative articles that wind people up. That is what he does, and it ensures the paper gets free publicity when everyone kicks up a fuss over the dross he produces week after week. Just ask any Kiwi - he''s been doing it to them for years.
Yes, the Boks are getting a lot of attention and coming in for plenty of criticism but this comes with the territory of being at the top of the pile. There is more than a grain of truth in what Jones says though - the Bok scrum is simply not dominant against the other top nations and clearly needs work.
But the bottom line is that history will record this as a golden period for Bok rugby where they won everything in sight, and not for what some fool called S. Jones wrote about them in a Sunday paper.
by GlobetrotterSA November 19, 2009 23:53 GMT
If you read a few of Stephen Jones'' Rolling Maul articles, you''ll quickly realise he has an automatic hatred for everything that is South African. I have yet to read a positive comment about SA, written by him. He is undoubtedly the most biased journalist out there. I don''t even consider him a rugby journo; he is a tabloid journo at best who has nothing good to say about SH rugby anyway. Even though we beat the NH lot year after year! What a plonker.
by John November 19, 2009 23:58 GMT
I wish all these comments were actually published on Jones'' article on the Times Online website, so he can actually read how pathetic he really is! Jones still have not acknowledged that the Lions have actually lost the series! He is an unbelievable sore loser which of course means he''s a bad loser every year since the teams he support, rarely wins against the SPringboks anyway!
by Nic Rissik November 20, 2009 00:35 GMT
.........and Wales have won how many world cups? Dont think I have heard of a decent welsh prop for years. LIVING IN THE PAST MATE! I think MR JONES is still a bit bruised from the Lions tour. Its o.k Mr Jones 1 win from 9 apperances is not bad. Think you might need to add "the lions being the most overrated team" to your national characteristics.
by piet pompies November 20, 2009 01:33 GMT
I really do hope that all Welshmen think the same as Mr. Jones. It must really suck for Wales not to be able beat New Zea land, Australia and South Africa on a regular basis.
The Welsh press have become worse than English press.
A few bad games at the end of a very long season for most of these players, playing against guys who''s season just started a few weeks back. We are playing against guys who are fresh and obviosly very amped to play the world champs. Steven Jones jou ma se gat.
by teague November 20, 2009 03:36 GMT
just some sensationalism to get South African blood boiling and build some hype before the upcoming games. Reading some comments id say he was acheiving his objective - not to be taken seriously. A Bok side with this much experience is mature enough to work on its weaknesses, thats how we''ve won two world cups. That said, SCRUM THEM BOYS!!
by Louis Olivier November 20, 2009 03:41 GMT
Mr Jones to put it mildly, your brain has obviously got no forward gears so you spit out the drivel that should be coming out your ass out your mouth it seems to me. I wonder if you have ever spent even one minute in the front row of even a club scrum? You like most comentators have no clue what is actually hppening in the front row yet you shout your mouth, sorry in this case ass, of about it. As a previous person asked, how many world cup medals can Wales bring to this scrumming debate?
by Joe November 20, 2009 03:57 GMT
Os and Cobus Visagie were two of the greats. Otherwise I think he is right. We don''t measure up at scrum time. We should, but we don''t. I for one hope that we can sort it out, but remember boys, it''s only the final score that counts at the end of the day and we have done pretty well in that department.
by emma November 20, 2009 04:30 GMT
ignorant
by John Hooker November 20, 2009 05:05 GMT
play John at hooker in the Northern hemi games
by Duncan November 20, 2009 05:06 GMT
The fact that I''m replying to his article means that he got under my skin & he has some sort of moral victory. Jones'' article lacks merit. Have a look at the SA Trophy cabinet & the history of the world rankings. Can''t be done with a lousy scrum! Everybody has a bad day at the office. This is very evident that Jones was having a bad day when he wrote this article. On this evidence, Jones should go back to writing for his community paper.
by JG Shields November 20, 2009 05:39 GMT
It reminds me of the successful propaganda campaigns by the freedom fighter movements in Angola during the late 80''s when they were actually shot to pieces in reality. However, let him have his moment of "false sence of glory". At least he is a happy man in society.
by derick November 20, 2009 05:58 GMT
bloody knob. who knows very little obviously!!!!!!!
by Jolly November 20, 2009 06:00 GMT
Leave aside the insulting tone of his article, the fact of the matter is that the scrum is hugely problematic and has been for some time. The frightening thing is we even struggle to achieve parity and are instead dominated (like what we do to lesser nations- Samoa, Namibia etc....).
Is the problem coaching, technique, selection.....?
by gary b November 20, 2009 06:01 GMT
mr jones please remember that we are world champions and a side consists of 15 players not 2. i like mr jones though i think the bok management should consider offering him a contract he seems to know a great deal about scrumming. HA , HA ARAB FIND A HOLE TO CRAWL INTO MR JONES YOU ARE GOING TO NEED IT AFTER OUR PROPS CRUSH FIRSTLY THE ITALIAN FRONT ROW THEN THE IRISH. GO BOKKE FORGET ABOUT THIS FOOL.
by Chad Atkins November 20, 2009 06:35 GMT
SHAME !!! The Brittish are such BAD Losers. Stephen Jones is a chop !!
by Andrew November 20, 2009 06:38 GMT
Mr. Jones to beat the all blacks you have to have a strong scrum, when last did wales accomplish that? 1954 or so, ja nice one! and os has won two world cups, no welschman has ever won a single world cup! We do need to work on our scrumming but never put down os, the legend! Im guessing you have so much to say cos welsch rugby is in such a healthy state. Oh and for the record you we won the lions tour and we beat you last time we played you home and away... please stick to singing in the choir!
by WSS November 20, 2009 07:06 GMT
Mr. Jones, Please wait till the day that you know someting about front rows then you comment again. What you reported is nothinfg but a bunch od rubbish.
by Emil Michael November 20, 2009 07:17 GMT
In South Africa the Afrikaaners have a saying, Look at the score board. Well I guess they are not looking now, because the Boks are getting their arses'' kicked. Jones must be correct. De Villiers is riding on the back of Jake White. Only God knows what he is going to do at the next World Cup when he finds out that the entire Bok scrum was worn out a year ago. Maby Black tokenism will get him out of the cr_ _. De Villiers and his fellow coaches have a favorite saying, "we''ll take the positives out of this loss and make changes going forward,"BUT THE BOK SCRUM NEVER GOES FORWARD" Have a nice day
by Laughable November 20, 2009 07:20 GMT
Mr Jones....Say whatever you wish...Fact is SA Rugby Holds EVERY major Rugby title in the World!!
by Tyron November 20, 2009 07:34 GMT
He has made some interesting "BS" & it''s great to hear what other countries think of our scrums. Being on top of world rugby will always mean that you will get slapped for every thing that goes wrong. I promise you if Jones had to srum for an entire Super14 & B&I Lions & Tri-Nations & Currie Cup that he would probably not be as good as his first srum back in Febuary. Nevertheless, our dirt trackers were selected totally wrong, has no expierence playing together & played against opponents that were simply more amped to win than us. We are still number one!!!! i''ll keep drinking that no matter what any whelsh goon has to say.
by morne November 20, 2009 07:36 GMT
rugby gaan nie net oor scrum nie, ek kan leef met dit, daar moet net cridiet aan die oppenente gegee word. ons het wereld gehalte voor spelers. Hulle sal reg kom. Dit is snaaks, omdat ons teen die franse verloor het nou is ons geliefde wêreld klas span nou paloekas. vir al julle wat saam met daai aap saam stem het geen trots vir die BOK SPAN. julle sê die selfde spelers sleg vat julle van gespog het met die super 14, tri nations & BIL tour. skrik waker want more is hulle weer wenners, wat is julle woorde dan. ''N trotse bok ondersteunder. wen of verloor.
by Christo Liebenberg November 20, 2009 07:45 GMT
What a T.I.T.! But what a good motivation for the Boks!!
by M. S. Van Doorsen November 20, 2009 07:47 GMT
British Stephen Jones what a writer
Today Friday 20 November 2009 South Africa''s current record stands as follows:
1. Current 15 Man Rugby World Champions 2. Current 7 Man Rugby World Champions 3. Current Mandela Freedom Cup Champions 4. Current Tri-Nations Champions 5 Current Super 14 Champions
The list is endless, no country in the world has held all these achievements at the same time. Mr. Jones, there is a saying, if you cant beat them join them. In your case it is if you cant beat them thenthen write rubbish about them
by A Chic who Watches Rugby cos her man loves it. November 20, 2009 07:47 GMT
Dont know much about hookers, scrums and what constitutes a "good welsh Journalist" but here is a long list of points I must include:
We are the world Champions, you are not.
Jealousy makes you nasty big boy.
by Steve November 20, 2009 07:49 GMT
Mr Jones loves stirring up debate. Keeps his name in the headlines. Unfortunately he is absolutely one eyed though, and conveniently forgets about Os destroying Phil Vickery in a crucial scrum just before half-time in the WC final that won us a crucial penalty, or Beast annihilating the same Vickery in the first British Lions test this year. We may not have had the very best scrum in the world since 94, but they have been good enough to win 2 world cups, both of which Os played in. Enough said for me.
by Mark November 20, 2009 07:54 GMT
Who the @%$! is stephen jones.....the only legend he might have been is by the amount of drivel he shovels.....oh by the way - keep your medication going next time you may just contribute something of value!
by Sprinbokalways November 20, 2009 08:51 GMT
@ ALLBLACKALWAYS, we cheated in 1995? Dream on! We could not play you guys in 2007 world cup because you guys got smashed out in the quarters you idiot! You guys haven''t won a world cup in 22 years because you are psychologically to pathetic to win a tight game on a big occasion. My prediction, the All Blacks will hardly make it out of the group stages in 2011 at home and then get smashed out of the competition again in the quarters!
by Tumi November 20, 2009 08:52 GMT
From brown slippery leather Springbok balls, to 4, not 5 points for a try, to POPPING and LIFTING your opponent in the front row ...the changes in that engine room being wiltered down to a TOUCH, PAUSE, ENGAGE ...the Welsh and this Welshman should shout Neil Jenkins & Gareth Edwards THEN SHUT THE FK UP !!! Somehow this clowns comments smack not of the entire game BUT OF A SCRUMMAGING CONTEST which the current Free State Cheethas Currie Cup semi finalist front row would be willing to oblige in against ANY front row and dare i say it - WOULD WIN. (fyi info dragon red man - Mangaung, Grey Bloem and Welkom are all South African AND BREED WORLD CUP WINNING PROPS which is AT LEAST 2 TIMES MORE THAN YOU CAN EAT "BREAD OF HEAVEN")
1998: South Africa vs Wales 96-13 at Loftus Versfeld, Pretoria (I really enjoyed this one, but i forget we cant scrum...)....THANKS FOR THIS REMINDER SIMON ....
